Feh, I gotta go to sleep, I'm along east coast, so its 11 45. I'm going to move this to debates and heated discussions for the time being... I'll be on again within 16 hours... i think....

i disagree completely...why can it never be unbiased? sure at the time it will always be biased but we're not talking about current events we're talking about history, now if we learned something that we didnt know was happening, wouldn't you then include that because its fact, regardless of if it was positive or negative?

i could give a ****less, everything i mentioned was like pre-school things, things that small children should learn, like i said i don't blame the education system it just needs a major overhaul...it goes way above your principal, you're mayor, you're govenor, and you're president

ehh?

Humanism should be common sense, treating your fellow man as a man, however, hate to break your sugar coated reality, but that is not always the case, and you might need to look outside of the box on this one...on the surface everything looks ok, but you can't judge a book by its cover

i learned to think for myself out of necessity..? my whole life i played the game, i did what was expected of me, i followed the rules i was a good boy, but after so much you have to ask yourself why? whats the point to that? what would i have to look forward to if i followed this path? i could wear my collared shirt and tie, drive my box to work so i could sit in my box and work on my plastic box, and then return home to my large box that i live in and watch a box...there are people totally happy with that lifestyle, but its not for me...i'm not saying that i'm right and you're wrong, i just want people to think differently, outside of the box

thank you? i learned more yes, did i learn book smarts? no, cuz thats not all that learning is...i educated myself on politics, religion, drugs (hate it or love it, we need to accept what drugs have meant to mankind over the years) and philosophy...its all in the way you look at things, preception

reality is what you make it, if you choose to put blinders on to avoid the nasty things in life, then you will not see them, but if you open your eyes you never know what you might see

ok like i said above, that would be something taught early, pre-school/elementary early, before the kids are snotty ****ing brats that won't listen lol

...no, you're wrong...people are all exactly the same, its their enviornment and the things their exposed to that make them that way...people are born without hate, hate is taught, usually at home

both of those would qualify, you learn common sense from having a positive role model, it wouldn't be taught from a book...again, perception

and its also the root of all evil, as said Jesus, so...yea..look at the back of a dollar bill, see that pryimid with the eye on it? now research Free Masonry

both...the certain people live in the certain areas...and if you can't put two in two together i feel bad for you...i'll even give you a better hint
the majority of prisoners in America are...
the majority of Americans living in poverty are...
the schools with the least funding and resources are the same schools in which the school population is mostly comprised of...

no i dont, which is why i said it...and you still refuse to acknowledge that i already said that its not just school




btw, answer is: minorities






...you must be very happy

As Joad said... without school people would be mindless idiots... society is already as dumb as it can be...

Sorry Hatchet... but I see your viewpoint as very biased and one-sided.

I like Hatchet's view. My friend and his friends wrote a zine once and there was a page dedicated to the education system, although it was university and not necessarily high school. I scanned it before I left for work but I didn't notice that it didn't scan very well and now I don't have it because I gave it to somebody. That was going to be my entire reply...

But somebody has to have Hatchet's back! Sort of. I think.
You can learn in school, sometimes you even get good teachers that care. For example, my history teacher was about as unbiased as I can expect, considering he told us the truth about some of the propaganda we were reading about. But you really don't get that many teachers that really care that much, or even know that much so they can tell you it's full of shit. That same teacher said "You need a built in shit detector." It's true.

But what Hatchet said about memorizing is true. A majority of school is not actually learning, it's memorizing and I know that I've forgotten a lot that I "learned" in school since I've been out. I simply do not use a lot that I was told. There are things out there that do essentially prove the point if you think about it. You know that show on, I think, Fox that has the 5th graders outsmarting everybody? That isn't saying school is awesome. If you think about it, the people getting outsmarted are older and have had a long time to forget all they knew, and why? Because they don't use it anymore!

And let's not forget that we're only taught what the curriculum wants us to be, which is created by a bunch of people higher up who probably don't even care, who have more than likely forgot what they "knew." You can choose courses but ultimately you don't choose what you're taught in those courses. I wanted to learn about Mongolia (which you know, was the most expansive empire in History back when Genghis Khan was the ruler, or at least one of the most expansive), but I wasn't taught that. Surely something like that warrants time? Which brings me to another point. There isn't enough time to teach this stuff so think about all the stuff we're not taught. One has to ask him/herself why each specific thing we study is chosen.

Anyway. I don't hate schools, I agree with Hatchet that they need an overhaul. I agree with what he said we need to be taught, and I can also back him on on the fact that I've learned more in the few years that I've been out than I did in school. Mind you, there are some things I've retained, like basic math but I don't use the quadratic formula anymore. Yet I was taught it even though I wasn't interested in it BECAUSE I NEEDED SO MANY MATH CREDITS TO GRADUATE.
They may aid in the advancement of what we know but you definitely need to learn to pick and choose and think outside the box (as Hatchet said) and realize that there's a world of information out there that doesn't have anything to do with school.

And let's not even talk about the costs to go to University. Ouch.

In fact, as I work, I find myself using less and less that school taught me. Coincidence?

So my final stance on this, to clarify in case I got confusing. School isn't evil, you can learn certain things from it but to think it's the only way to educate yourself is foolishness.

Edit: And how can you konkikt declare Hatchet's view as bias and one sided and not call Joad's the same? This isn't even me insulting Joad in any way but as I can see, Hatchet's view isn't anymore biased than mine or yours or AJ or Gods. He's informed and he didn't completely trash school.
And, this is a debate.

i meant like this

Train1----------------------------------------------------------->
<------------------------------------------------------------------------Train 2
at what point do they cross, those kind of problems

and we've had the same level of public education the whole time, how do you think we came to be so ****ing stupid?

Okay, I'm back. I logged on and was like "Kyaaah! 42 new posts!!!" This is the first thread I read, and the first I will respond to. Glad to see other people posted...

Hmm, I'll start with the post directly after mine, or Hatchet's long one.

1st one
Is there an account in history that is unbiased? I would like to read one.

2nd
Okay. School needs a major overhaul, in your opinion. Well, I say it shouldn't, and Bill Gates is the American proof. School is meant to educate in smarts and logic, not sense and/of morals, I believe.

4th
At this point, I don't think schools can say, "Okay, today, humanism will be common sense, so learn it." If people want to learn about humanism, they always can. This is America (Er, at least I live in America, I'm not sure w/ others). If I want to learn about Humanism, I will because I can. WE, both you and I, say "should", but America grants "could." Also, if people want their children to learn about humanism, there's always homeschooling, because America allows that too. If you're dissatisfied with the education in America, then take the other options it gives you. I think that was the first time I myself have used the word dissatisfied. I don't like that word anymore.

5th.
And I suppose learning about humanism in school will get you out of that lifestyle. <--- this is a confused smiley.

6th.
Yay! See, school teaches in more ways than people think: the way you have identified, as in book smarts, and the way of educating yourself when you're finally thrown into the world of life. Once again, school was an exercise, and with it you learned how to educate yourself properly about politics, religion, drugs, and philosophy.

7th.
Isn't humanism always enforced in the younger years? I remember when i was in preschool I was taught it was bad to hate others for looking different, for being a girl, for being a boy, for being anything but me. I'm guessing you want that to be enforced more, right?

8th. Omg there's an 8th. I should stop soon. I'll just put 8-10 in this paragraph (Thus, the 3 for 1 special.[*=next one])
Well, how would someone completely rid of sexism and racism? If the environment of everyone were to be the same, we wouldn't have different views, and we wouldn't be able to grow as a community.(*) Er, how can common sense be taught in school like you want it to be if school is merely an exercise?(*) Well, I won't research Free Masonry, but without evil, there is no good. Without sadness, there is no happiness. Both balance, at times one dominates, and thats what makes the world go round. Figuratively speaking.

11th? Don't tell me if I skipped one, good God.
Ok, so wait, If I press 1st page, I'll lose what I have typed. Now that you want to discuss both points... you can't say we want certain people to succeed if others don't want to succeed. People who don't want to succeed usually end up in poverty (I don't know if poverty is valid in America compared to the life of others in other countries) and prison. We can't accuse the education system if the people don't want to go through with it.

12th...gosh...
Ugh, tired of typing. Crap, I didn't mention society once in my arguement? Let me check. Damn it. Also, the main topic here is school, so if I did forget to mention society, when my focus was on school, blame me. I'ma go check if I mentioned society...

Ah, finally done. Or not. Let me read the other posts...
Konkikt- Thanks for support
Obdurate- School is an exercise, rape is a crime (it's a joke, its personal comic relief)
GA- School is an exercise.

why can't we create one? you act like if you ignore the truth then it will go away

how the hell does that make sense?


no 3rd point?


exactly...for once you're right...totally and completely, this is America and if WE THE PEOPLE want that then we should have that, the problem is that we don't want that, but we don't want that out of our ignorance to everything


..whaat?

what? school for sure does not properly educate you about politics and drugs, nor religion and probably not philosophy either but im not sure on that one...everything you've ever been told in school about drugs is 90% propoganda with over embelished facts, politics are again of course biased its never the full story that you get, but again like you're going to say its always biased and you seem to be fine with that...religion in school is definatly biased towards Christianity, but its also not taught in public schools anyway so that can't really go either way...and you keep saying school gets you ready for life...no, maybe you can get me on board with college but when you're in high school you're not living in the real world what so ever

thats true, but when they say that and all the kids in the room are almost exactly the same, it kinda loses its luster doesnt it? basically im saying practice what you preach...and again this part, the Humanism is about racism, and the racism is so inbred it goes above school anyway, its probably impossible to erase because there will always be ignorant people in the world

so to be different you have to have someone to hate? do you realize what you just said? if you rid sexism and racism who will we grow as a community...gold, amazing...

of course you won't, but just be concious of that eye on the back of the dollar

because people who are born into poverty have much of a choice? "The streets is a short stop, either ya slangin' crack rock or ya got a wicked jump shot" thats not just a line, thats truth

so when Detroit public schools waste all their money for books on shit for the corrupt faculty and the children literally don't have books to do their work in, its because they don't want to succeed? i can see where i was mistaken

Detroits literacy rate is about the same as a 3rd world country, the poverty rate in America is significant enough

Hatchet replied to everything so, all I have to add is:

School isn't an exercise, it's closer to a death march (exaggeration intended). Think outside the box and don't take that completely literally, it makes sense.

Well Bill Gates isn't proof the education system doesn't need an overhaul. He had no college education, and had only a will to learn, and that is all you need. The problem isn't the education system, it is the unwillingness of people to learn. The education system does have a few flaws, but that isn't the biggest part of the problem. That's my opinion.