I doubt this will get much in the way of a debate but you never know. I was sitting here thinking and for some odd reason I thought about patriotism.

What is patriotism to you? What makes a patriot?
There was a time when Patriots were lined up and shot. It was because they questioned the "evils" that were taking place in their own country by the powers that be.

But now patriotism is often (but not always, as I've shown above) synonymous with moronic flag waving and the complete obedience and dedication to your country.

Is there a way to find a balance? Are you a patriot because you support your country no matter what or are you only a patriot because you put your country/leaders in its place when it has to be?
This is related to the idea of terrorism so we can discuss that too.

Ooh, this is another hard subject for me, harder than anarchy. Hmm, a patriot, to me, is someone who does what's best for his/her country. Hmm, by saying this, I could open up something along the lines of "If this was better for the country than that, and you dont like it, would you still think its patriotism?"
And thats a great question, I have no idea, because I don't agree with everyone. Hmm, I dont think a school assignment can enforce me on this one...

This is a difficult debate to choose a side on (if there are sides, it is more like a discussion of opinion) because it depends on how one wants to interpret the word patriot. I think it is more of a nationalist that takes action fo rhis/her nation rather than an obediant servant of the nation. People who put their lives on the line willingly to support their country, or those who help their nation's people out significantly, these I consider patriots. However, if one lived in a monarchy and was forced by their ruler to do such things as risk their lives, and they do it willingly and full-heartedly, but would not do so if not instructed to, I would not consider a patriot. I would consider such a person an ignorant slave, who does not realize that their lives are not theirs to control.

In such a nation where the only patriots are such people, I think anarchy is suitable. If not anarchy, a revolution. Here is where the principles of the anarchy thread are put into context, when one must decide what is best for him/herself, and him/herself alone.

I like that you, Butler, debate but in this post wasn't a very good showing of opinions with any kind of reason behind it. Probably because you just asked the same questions the OP did for almost half of it or because you got caught up in your own attempt at intellectualism. But anyway:

Kinda like every other debate? There are clearly sides, there's sides to everything. Which I said in the OP.

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because it depends on how one wants to interpret the word patriot.

Which was the point of the thread, yes.

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I think it is more of a nationalist that takes action fo rhis/her nation rather than an obediant servant of the nation.

And Nationalism is closely related to Patriotism. In fact, some people use Nationalism as a synonym for Patriotism.

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People who put their lives on the line willingly to support their country, or those who help their nation's people out significantly, these I consider patriots.

Ok, great. But how do you define "support their country" and "help their nation's people out significantly"? That's (one of) the point(s) of the thread.



^ Didn't like that half of your post. This next part is better.

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However, if one lived in a monarchy and was forced by their ruler to do such things as risk their lives, and they do it willingly and full-heartedly, but would not do so if not instructed to, I would not consider a patriot.

That answer is a little better, in the sense it tried to put a definition in place. Good job. I even agree.

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In such a nation where the only patriots are such people, I think anarchy is suitable. If not anarchy, a revolution. Here is where the principles of the anarchy thread are put into context, when one must decide what is best for him/herself, and him/herself alone.

Also agreed but people should know my stance on Anarchy anyway.

So, we all agree on the definition of a patriot being a person who willingly does the greater good for his country w/out being forced to?

But what's the greater good?

Is rebellion an important part of it- the greater good? Because rebellion isn't seen as a plus with everybody.

Well, the greater good is the personal view. Choosing the lesser of two evils is sometimes the case. It would be easier if we had a situation, and then we could discuss the greater good, whether it be agreeing with others or disagreeing.

Just wanna throw something out here...

Ok, currently, V for Vendetta is on the TV. I'm waiting for the part I haven't seen yet. I see this movie holds such a deep meaning... and gave some ideas to other people, such as the quote "People shouldnt fear the gov', the gov' should fear its people." I also read a short, fictional story inspired by that, it was probably only 160,000 words or so, but I see that the movie is like defiance towards government. Great inspiration for anarchy and such. Just wanted to say that, its such a deep movie, I'm gunna watch it now.

Oh yeah, for those who have seen it (I don't want to explain it, just watch it), even if its fictional, do you believe V is a patriot in some sense? In his situation, he's doing a "greater good" for his country, at least by how its set up. Thoughts, anyone?

V for Vendetta is a movie everybody should see. It's one of my favourites. V is definitely a patriot because he's questioning the government and standing up for what he feels is important. Which is what patriots used to be until the very idea of patriotism got molded into what the government wants it to be.

I knew it was something you saw and liked, as I was watching it I remembered the discussion on gov the whole movie. Wachowski bros are brilliant. Also, the ending of that movie... does a patriot only fight for the greater good, or does one also represent? V, in the movie, represented the part of the people that can never be oppressed, that can never be held down. I call someone like that a patriot as well.