Abortion

AJ · #**271** 07-05-08, 10:17 PM

Saying that a fetus is not a person until birth is just plain ignorant.

Quote:

Milestones of Early Life

At no time in your life does more growth and change occur than in the first nine months before birth. Here are the amazing milestones of that time in your life:

Day 1: Conception: Of the 200,000,000 sperm that try to penetrate the mother’s egg cell, only one succeeds.2 At that very moment, a new and unique individual is formed. All of the inherited features of this new person are already set – whether it’s a boy or girl, the color of the eyes, the color of the hair, the dimples of the cheeks and the cleft of the chin. He or she is smaller than a grain of sugar, but the instructions are present for all that this person will ever become.

The first cell soon divides in two. Each of these new cells divides again and again as they travel toward the womb in search of a protected place to grow.3

Day 6-14:The new individual at first attaches loosely to the wall of the womb, then burrows deeply and attaches securely to it over the next week. Sensitive pregnancy tests can now show positive, but this depends on the level of hormone produced by the new life. By the end of the second week, the mother’s menstrual period is suppressed by this hormone (hCG) which is produced by her child.4

Day 17:Blood vessels begin to form.4 Remarkably, the future sex cells that will give rise to sperm or eggs for a new generation begin to group together - only 17 days after this new life is alive itself.5

Day 18-20:The foundations of the brain, spinal cord, and nervous system are laid.6

Day 21:The heart begins to beat,7 unsurely at first, gaining strength day by day. The heart beats 70 times per minute at first, reaching a maximum of 170-190 at seven weeks, and slowing a bit to 160-180 at 9 weeks.8 A day later the eyes begin to develop. The earliest stages of the ears are now present.9

Day 26-27:The lungs now begin to form.10

Day 28-32:Two tiny arms make their appearance and budding legs follow two days later.11 The beginnings of the mouth take shape.12 The nose starts to develop.13 The thyroid gland begins to grow. Blood flows in the baby’s veins but stays separate from the mother’s blood. The tongue now begins to form. The face now makes its first appearance.14

Day 36:The baby’s eyes develop their first color in the retina (see photo above, right).15

Day 40:The baby makes her first reflex movements. Touching around the mouth with a fine bristle causes her to flex her neck.16

Day 41:The fingers begin to form, followed by the toes a few days later.17

Day 42:The baby develops nerve connections that will lead to a sense of smell. The brain is now divided into 3 parts – one to experience emotion and understand language, one for hearing and one for seeing. 18 Joints begin to form.19 Mother now misses second period.

Day 44:Buds of milk teeth appear. Facial muscles develop.20 Eyelids begin to form, protecting the developing eyes.21 Elbows take shape. Internal organs are present, but immature. 99% of muscles are present; each with its own nerve supply.22 Electrical activity is detectable in brain.23

Day 52:Spontaneous movement begins. The baby then develops a whole collection of moves over the next 4 weeks including hiccupping, frowning, squinting, furrowing the brow, pursing the lips, moving individual arms and legs, head turning, touching the face, breathing (without air), stretching, opening the mouth, yawning, and sucking.24

8 Weeks:The baby is now well-proportioned, and about the size of a thumb. Every organ is present. The liver is making blood, the kidneys function, and the heart beats steadily. The skull, elbows, and knees are forming. Of the 4500 structures in the adult body, 4000 are already present.25 The skeleton of the arms and legs and the spine begins to stiffen as bone cells are added.26

9 Weeks9 If prodded, the baby’s eyelids and hands close. Genitalia that were forming in the 7th week now become visible, indicating whether it’s a boy or girl. However, the doctor won’t be able to tell by ultrasound until the 12th to 20th week. Early muscular movements begin. The thyroid gland turns on.27

10 Weeks10 Fingerprints begin their 7 week long formation. The fingernails begin to develop. The eyelids now fuse together until month 7, protecting the delicate eyes.28 The number of connections between nerves and muscles has tripled since last week.29

11 Weeks11 The baby now "practices" breathing, since she will have to breathe air immediately after birth. The baby urinates. Her stomach muscles can now contract.30 Vocal chords and taste buds form.31 She can make complex facial expressions and even smile.32

12 Weeks12 Fine hair begins to grow on the upper lip and chin and eyebrows.33 The baby swallows and responds to skin stimulation.32

13 Weeks13 The face is prettier, and facial expressions may resemble the parents’. The baby is active, but mom doesn’t feel anything yet.34

15 Weeks15 A wild production of nerve cells begins and continues for a month. A second surge will occur at 25 weeks.35

4 MonthsNostrils and toenails become visible. The baby may suck her thumb, turn somersaults and has a firm grip. The ovaries of girls contain beginnings of eggs. She begins to develop sleeping habits.32 At about 4 ½ months she is able to experience pain.36, 37

5 MonthsThe testes descend in boys. Mom may feel the baby kick, turn or hiccup and may be able to identify a bulge as an elbow or head.38 Each side of the brain has a billion nerve cells now.36

6 MonthsThe baby will be able to hear by next week.39 The child sleeps and wakes, nestling in her favorite positions to sleep, and stretches upon waking up.40

7 MonthsThe eyelids begin to reopen, preparing to see the outside world.41 Eyelashes have now become well developed.42

8 MonthsSkin becomes pink and smooth. The pupils of eye respond to light. Fingernails reach to the tip of the finger.42 The baby is really getting cramped now.

9.5 MonthsThe child triggers labor and birth occurs, an average of 264-270 days after conception.43

And not until the baby has gone through all these events on the inside can we see the new child on the outside.

gillibean · #**272** 07-05-08, 10:24 PM

It's not ignorant, it's the fucking legal definition. A fetus is not a person, it is a fetus and has no legal rights. That is not to say that it has no value.

My Winter Storm · #**273** 07-05-08, 10:29 PM

AJ, I have read plenty on fetal development, I don't need to read about it again.

My opinion is still the same. A fetus is not a person (in my opinion, and according to the law) until it has been born, and has taken a breath.

Akemiaya · #**274** 07-06-08, 01:58 AM

"Fuck that shit.

Wait till' I get outa here bitch."

Ich_Bin_Butler · #**275** 07-06-08, 04:23 PM

I'm considering the children more than the woman. Should they be forced to have a baby if they don't want to? Should the baby be forced not to live if it wants to? Sure, it'd suck to have a child when you don't want one, but I still say adoption is less traumatic to the mother and child than abortion. What can be more traumatic than your own death? I think it's the same as killing a very young baby after birth. They aren't really aware of their own existence. They don't think about life any more than a fetus might. They just live, like they did in the womb. They won't even remember those stages of their lives later. Kill them then, too, if that's what you want, and it'll be the same. I, personally, am glad that I'm alive, as difficult and frustrating as life may be. I certainly wouldn't want to have been aborted, and if I became pregnant, and there was a good, safe way to get that baby out, I wouldn't have it killed.

Treat others as you want to be treated.

Now, what's the big difference between a fetus and a newborn baby? The difference is that if you were to kill the newborn, you would have to look at it and hear it crying. Life has obviously begun, since the fetus is performing life processes already. It's maturing and it needs materials from food, and all that.

And I don't want to hear anything from Obdurate here. If you post, dude, you better not quote my post and dissect it. And just to make sure you don't, I'll put something in here that will make it seem like you agree with me if you quote this post.

"I, Tyler Obdurate of Canada, North America, agree wholeheartedly with Butler, and I am terrible at life. I have no friends. I will now quote this post or just part of it, leaving this part out perhaps, to demonstrate my love for his opinions and my agreeance with them. Semicolons are kewl."

Obdurate · #**276** 07-06-08, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler;27003[B

]
And I don't want to hear anything from Obdurate here. If you post, dude, you better not quote my post and dissect it. And just to make sure you don't, I'll put something in here that will make it seem like you agree with me if you quote this post.

"I, Tyler Obdurate of Canada, North America, agree wholeheartedly with Butler, and I am terrible at life. I have no friends. I will now quote this post or just part of it, leaving this part out perhaps, to demonstrate my love for his opinions and my agreeance with them. Semicolons are kewl."
[/b]

How are we defining no friends? Like, I have no one that I even talk to? Or just, I can't physically hang out with anybody cuz there's nobody to hang out with (gf not included)?
Cuz if it's the latter, then you're right. And I am terrible at life, I am Tyler Obdurate and I'm from Canada, and I do love your opinions.
So the only thing we don't agree on is what you said about abortion AND about semicolons!

Crazy.

Ich_Bin_Butler · #**277** 07-07-08, 04:33 PM

I don't actually like semicolons that much. I use them, though, rather than truncate off and begin a new sentence with a preposition or article. It's not like they don't mean anything grammatically, and I don't get all emotionally attached to my punctuation anyway, so the fact that the period has a wife and five kids to feed doesn't stop me from using its taller, sexier single cousin when I have a job that needs be done. After all, the period gets plenty of action out there in the field and I'm not paying him anyway.

View Poll Results: Are you...?
Pro-life.	13	43.33%
Pro-choice.	17	56.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.puretalkforum.com/f70/abortion-416.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
Abortion - Social Issues at PureTalkForum.com	This thread	Refback	05-17-08 06:54 AM
Abortion: A Choice Against Women - alt.feminism \| Google Groups	This thread	Refback	04-08-08 11:21 AM
Abortion: A Choice Against Women - alt.feminism \| Grupy dyskusyjne	This thread	Refback	04-03-08 04:37 PM
Abortion - Page 23 - PureTalkForum debates & discussion [Express Yourself]	This thread	Refback	03-23-08 04:11 PM
alt.abortion \| Google Groups	This thread	Refback	03-16-08 02:31 PM
alt.abortion \| Google Groups	This thread	Refback	03-16-08 09:47 AM
Digg / All News, Videos, & Images / Upcoming	This thread	Refback	03-15-08 02:56 PM
Abortion - Is it wrong? \| PureTalkForum Blog	This thread	Pingback	02-26-08 09:18 PM

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gillibean For This Useful Post:
Brandon (07-07-08), My Winter Storm (07-05-08)