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Abortion

This is a discussion on Abortion within the Social Issues forums, part of the Debates & Discussion category; Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler Not to be too argumentative over that, but I find that kids could easily accept that ...

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  #211  
Old 03-10-08, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

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Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler View Post
Not to be too argumentative over that, but I find that kids could easily accept that their father is a rapist and accept it as a young child, not understanding it, and move on with life. If they were teenagers before their mother actually told them, then yes: life would suck. And maybe once they figured it all out they would be pretty traumatized anyway, but on to the next point to make.
You're severely underestimating the affects on a kid when told who their father really is, whether as a young child or a teenager. Obviously not all kids will care but there's some deep psychological elements presented in your father being a rapist.
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  #212  
Old 03-11-08, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

Of course there will be some psychological problems for most kids, but I don't think that means they will become insane or criminal.
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  #213  
Old 03-11-08, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler View Post
Not to be too argumentative over that, but I find that kids could easily accept that their father is a rapist and accept it as a young child, not understanding it, and move on with life. If they were teenagers before their mother actually told them, then yes: life would suck. And maybe once they figured it all out they would be pretty traumatized anyway, but on to the next point to make.

If perversion (which would result in rape) were a mental disease like schizophrenia and (potentially) pedophilia, I don't see how that means that the baby is less worthy of life because it may have such tendencies. It may mean that the baby, with the preexisting potential for perversion and the messed up childhood it may have, would be more apt to rape someone. I don't know. I just don't think the nature of rape should have an effect on whether or not a rape-baby should be aborted.
is alcoholism a disease... can it be inherited... i believe so on both.. so i dont' see how the action of rape or rape itself woudlnt' be the same.
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  #214  
Old 03-11-08, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

This is interesting...

Rape Does Not Justify Abortion

Quote:
"Well what about rape? Are you saying that woman can't have an abortion?"
Normally, the primary concern of this question, normally, is not Do you think abortion is OK in this instance?, despite the fact that this is how the question may be expressed. The concern which is uppermost for the questioner is, Don't you care about this woman? Won't you have compassion and help her?

When we answer the question, therefore, let's start by addressing this point head on. Before we even mention abortion, we should stress that we agree totally that the woman who has been raped has undergone a terrible trauma, which we can hardly begin to understand, and that her well-being is very much our concern. Stress this point strongly, and go further by saying that we in the pro-life movement are ready to reach out to such women, giving them counsel, healing, and compassion.

This approach, of course, differs in that it does not start where most people would start in answering this challenge: namely, with the rights of the child. It starts with concern for the woman, which is where the questioner is.

Then, having agreed that the woman has been victimized and needs our help, you can frame the question of abortion in this manner: Will an abortion help her? By asking this, you are now questioning what is normally an unspoken, unchallenged assumption, namely, that the abortion is somehow a solution to the rape, and somehow helps alleviate the pain and trauma of the woman.

Having questioned this assumption, therefore, bring in the evidence that not only does the abortion not alleviate the trauma of the rape, but it brings a trauma of its own. Countless women suffer for years and decades after abortion.. I know of women who have been raped and then had abortions, and are in counseling not for the rape but for the abortion! In rape, the trauma is "Someone hurt me." In abortion, the trauma is "I hurt and killed someone else: my child." That brings even more grief.

We therefore help the questioner to see that our reason for denying the rape victim an abortion is not based on insensitivity but rather on compassion, that is, the same basis on which the questioner is challenging us to allow the abortion.

The next step of the process is to show that our compassion actually is more inclusive than that of those who would allow abortion. Having established that we care about the rape victim, we then ask the powerful question, Why can't we love them both? Why can't we extend to the child the same practical compassion which we both agree belongs to the woman? Why can't we expand the boundaries of those we welcome and care for? Why should helping and loving one (the mom) mean destroying the other (the child)? In reality, you cannot help one without helping the other and you cannot hurt one without hurting the other.
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  #215  
Old 03-11-08, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ View Post
This is interesting...

Rape Does Not Justify Abortion
just one persons opinion still doesn't change my view... lets get down to the core, religious or not, the core of a human being is genetics... everything we do is in some way shape or form to progress good genes versus bad genes...

if rape is a characteristic of a person... and you are raped and become pregnant that baby has the possiblity to take on this characteristic... so why would you want that chacteristic to continue on in society.. i sure don't with this being said if everyone follows this view, eventually rape will be non existant.

this same thing goes for lot of other things... any human characteristic...

they say in the futur everyone will have black hair almond shaped eyes and brown in color and a mildly tanned skin... once all the races mesh... thats basically what we will look like... dominating genes will continue to thrive through generations.
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  #216  
Old 03-12-08, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxbox View Post
just one persons opinion still doesn't change my view... lets get down to the core, religious or not, the core of a human being is genetics... everything we do is in some way shape or form to progress good genes versus bad genes...

if rape is a characteristic of a person... and you are raped and become pregnant that baby has the possiblity to take on this characteristic... so why would you want that chacteristic to continue on in society.. i sure don't with this being said if everyone follows this view, eventually rape will be non existant.

this same thing goes for lot of other things... any human characteristic...

they say in the futur everyone will have black hair almond shaped eyes and brown in color and a mildly tanned skin... once all the races mesh... thats basically what we will look like... dominating genes will continue to thrive through generations.
Unless you give me an medical article that explicitly states that rape is inherited, then I refuse to believe anything you say about it dealing with genetics.

ALCOHOLISM is a NOUN. It's SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN HAVE. It's an addiction. Addictions have been proven to pass through generations. Crack baby, anyone?

Is RAPISM a word? NO. (Even on spellchecker it says its not a word).

Rape is a verb. An act. To do something. Sure, yea yea, rape is a noun too. But only used in a certain manner. "The criminal was convicted of rape." Again, a noun that defines that the person raped someone. A noun describing a verb. You're arguement just doesn't make sense. Sure, the child might grow up knowing that their mother was raped, but what child is going to live through life and learn from his mother to rape people based on their childhood? Sure, it can cause damages mentally, but to say that the child will grow up to be a rapist and put other people in the position that they grew up in would just be ridiculous.
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  #217  
Old 03-12-08, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger View Post
Unless you give me an medical article that explicitly states that rape is inherited, then I refuse to believe anything you say about it dealing with genetics.

ALCOHOLISM is a NOUN. It's SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN HAVE. It's an addiction. Addictions have been proven to pass through generations. Crack baby, anyone?

Is RAPISM a word? NO. (Even on spellchecker it says its not a word).

Rape is a verb. An act. To do something. Sure, yea yea, rape is a noun too. But only used in a certain manner. "The criminal was convicted of rape." Again, a noun that defines that the person raped someone. A noun describing a verb. You're arguement just doesn't make sense. Sure, the child might grow up knowing that their mother was raped, but what child is going to live through life and learn from his mother to rape people based on their childhood? Sure, it can cause damages mentally, but to say that the child will grow up to be a rapist and put other people in the position that they grew up in would just be ridiculous.
drinking is an act and something you do and once addicted becomes alcoholism so someone that rapes over and over thats an act and somethign you become addicted to over and over... i really just don't see your guys points...
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  #218  
Old 03-12-08, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

It's a mental addiction, nonetheless (rape). And I really think that as long as the child of the alcoholic doesn't start drinking, I doubt he/she will develop alcoholism. Now lets say that it increases their chances of forming an addiction if they drink. If the child grows up around its mother knowing she was raped. If it's a girl, does that mean she's perfectly fine and incapable of rape? I really don't know, because I've never heard of a man being raped by a woman and needing therapy. And if it's a boy, does that mean he will have tendencies toward forcefully raping girls? I think rapists have more than one problem that causes them to act as they do. To name a few that seem probable, a lack of a conscience, violence, and strong sexual urges. If you're going to have an abortion if you were raped, it shouldn't be because you think your child could be a rapist.
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  #219  
Old 03-13-08, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler View Post
It's a mental addiction, nonetheless (rape). And I really think that as long as the child of the alcoholic doesn't start drinking, I doubt he/she will develop alcoholism. Now lets say that it increases their chances of forming an addiction if they drink. If the child grows up around its mother knowing she was raped. If it's a girl, does that mean she's perfectly fine and incapable of rape? I really don't know, because I've never heard of a man being raped by a woman and needing therapy. And if it's a boy, does that mean he will have tendencies toward forcefully raping girls? I think rapists have more than one problem that causes them to act as they do. To name a few that seem probable, a lack of a conscience, violence, and strong sexual urges. If you're going to have an abortion if you were raped, it shouldn't be because you think your child could be a rapist.
i agree with you, up until the last sentence... cause this is really the only time that i believe abortion is okay. hence why i am pro choice.
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  #220  
Old 03-14-08, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Abortion

Well, I can sympathize with not wanting to have a baby and wondering if the baby might have problems because its father might have had severe mental problems, but I really can't see a pregnant rape victim wanting an abortion because her son, if it's a boy, may become a rapist.
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