Yeah, believe what you want.

Man, you say this EVERY time somebody argues with you, AJ. "Well, there's no point because I'm just wasting my time". If you BELIEVE in a cause, it's never a waste of time. You're copping out. You can't claim to believe in the creation myth and then say it's a waste of time to argue it against people who don't believe in it. And you came out with that whole "but just look around" argument, which is CLEARLY not an argument. For anything. It's another cop-out. So that's two, without even really having to look for them. You're devaluing your own arguments. And being a prick at the same time.

Evolution as theory and fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
^ I really like this article. Read it.

Evolution (or, rather, 'adaptationism', which is an offshoot of evolution) is essentially based on the notion that living organisms adapt to their surroundings to survive. That's not saying by any means that we are invincible, because these adaptations come slowly and over a long period of time. Evolution itself is the displayed changes of inherited traits from one generation of species to the next. In other words, this generation of birds show similar inherited traits (within their own genus) as their predecessors, with slight differences (for instance, a change in the effectiveness of digesting certain foods) which developed based on their surroundings.

Microorganisms evolve in order to SURVIVE. You cannot deny SURVIVAL INSTINCTS. Ask ANY person who has ever survived a natural disaster or military assault if survival instincts exist.

"Lemme tell you somethin' you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a mean, ugly, nasty place. And I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you down to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it! You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward."
-Sylvester Stallone as Rocky Balboa, Rocky Balboa, 2006.

I agree that it is not a waste of time to argue in what I believe, but I can't argue creation vs. evolution with Obdurate when he is telling me to not use answers based on faith. If he's unwilling to consider any answers based on faith, it's impossible for me to argue it.

Here's a video - if you have time, try to watch it. It's fascinating. (for creation, with scientific proof, 4 parts):

[for Obdurate] This hard evidence completely disproves the theory of evolution and proves creation. This scientist's findings have been published in numerous popular scientific journals, books, and letters for over 25 years, and no one has been able to disprove it! The evolutionists are trying as hard as they can to keep this hard evidence of creation under the rug.

He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
-Micah 6:8 NIV

Next you're going to tell me Jesus had cream colored skin and long silky hair.


I wasn't going to post how I actually felt here at first. Religion is one of those taboo subjects you're not suppose to discuss..but fuck that. That is what a forum is for. We discuss topics, you may completely disagree with me and I with you, but thats how the mind evolves (pun intended) and develops critical thought. Thats how you observe alternative view points and become a more whole person.

I think faith is blind. I think religion is a crutch. I think people fear mortality, they fear the unknown, they fear chaos. And for those reasons I think religion was created as a means to appease the masses, to put they're minds at rest. People need spirituality, but you can't organize it. You can't box it up and sell it. You lose all the soul in the organization...the same reason that there's no creativity or art left in entertainment. Somewhere down the line while trying to spread the message out as far as you can, you end up losing the message. You have to let people find they're own message, they're own reasons, they're own truths.

I'm not saying I'm an atheist. But I reject you're catholicism and all its demonetizations. Religion is just another way to label, to distract, to exclude, to hate. I think we, as human beings, have evolved past the need of it. We need to get ready to transcend to a higher level of being. That involves enlightenment but that comes from inside of yourself not from inside of the King James.

Hatchy, there's no arguing with blind faith. In the end they just wrap themselves in their nice warm blanket and shut out science. There's room for faith in the world, but where it gets dangerous is when faith is all you have to keep you warm.

"Lemme tell you somethin' you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a mean, ugly, nasty place. And I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you down to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it! You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward."
-Sylvester Stallone as Rocky Balboa, Rocky Balboa, 2006.

That's an interesting insight, but I'm going to have to disagree. Did you watch any of the video I posted. Oh and did you know King James was gay? Just an interesting fact I thought I would through out there.

That's a common misconception...that religious people shut out science. But it's not true. I actually love science. I find it very interesting. For example, did you watch any of the video I posted? Very interesting.

He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
-Micah 6:8 NIV

i don't believe in evolution either. i have nothing against those people who believe in it though. but i feel i am more safe if i believe in the bible cause i know that the bible 100% accurate. there are no mistakes you will find there. so i am confident that man did not start from evolution.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I haven't laughed that hard since I was a little girl, thank you.

Feel free to break into the Epistemology argument with me, I've got an army of resources that can show that what you just said there is factually incorrect.

"Lemme tell you somethin' you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a mean, ugly, nasty place. And I don't care how tough you are, it will beat you down to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it! You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit. It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward."
-Sylvester Stallone as Rocky Balboa, Rocky Balboa, 2006.

I think that people can adapt with small changes, such as how their body is formed or how they react to certain stimuli, but I do not think that a bacteria can be formed by a quinzillion to one chance and evolve over time into all of the life on earth.

Here is why I believe extensive Evolution is unrealistic:
1. No sexual differentiation. An English Politician and a nun from China are still able to conceive, despite the fact that both cultures have been separated for all of history. On top of that, the gene pool for all humans is so close. There is almost no genetic differentiation, aside from skin color and appearance.

2. No other animal is even close to being as smart as humans, and the rate at which we are progressing versus other lifeforms isn't even comparable.

3. If evolution is true, then there is no point to life anyway, and we might as well all die in a nuclear war. I'd like to think that what we do in life matters.

As a more solid point, if evolution is true, then it doesn't really matter what you believe. If creationism is true, then it does. So logically, there is nothing to be lost by belief in a god, but there is a potential for unbelief. From a strictly logical perspective, religion is less risky.

4. It is an unproved theory. I think it is stupid that an unproved theory has been adopted as the origin of choice. We might as well say that Scientology is true now.

5. There are too many human flaws that should be weeded out if it is true. I feel that fear of mortality is one of them. I do not mean fear of death. If evolution was true, people would be much better off not worrying about what they do. In addition, people should not, therefore, have a sense of ethics.

From an evolutionary standpoint, it would be exceptionally better if people weren't as nit-picky as they are about anything. Survival should come first, people should not get grossed out by things like blood or fear spiders. People say that fear is an instinct of safety, and while I agree in some respects, I believe that if people were more fearless, they would be better off.

6. Regardless of my own religious or political affiliation, I believe that Faith-based organizations are essentially good, as they help people who are worse off. I see no downside in feeding kids in Africa, regardless of whether I'm doing it through a Christian organization. Although I do disagree with some religious institutions, they often inspire a charitable disposition, which I think is advantageous.

What I find annoying are those people who try to bend religion to suit their own purposes. They make abstract claims about life that hold no precedent in either religious documents or scientific law. I also think that people need to stop forcing their religion on others. It obviously isn't going to do anything but annoy people, and in essence, they hinder their own goal. For the purpose of argumentation, and to remain unbiased, I am not going to disclose my personal religious preferences. I hope that I've presented a concise and logical argument.

Sadly, I don't have the patience to read all of these 3 pages of long posts going back and forth, even though I hypocritically expect you to read mine. But here are my views:

Evolution does not disprove god or creation. It, along with the Gaia Theory, suggests that if there was any hierarchy creating everything, it created matter and all of our scientific laws.

Science states (though it doesn't know for certain) that different gases came together to form organic molecules and BOOM! We have single celled protobacteria feeding off the chemicals in the atmosphere and giving off water vapor. This supposedly gave the earth water and let the sunlight shine on through. Evolution brought about photosynthesis at that time. Keep in mind I don't know exactly what causes these changes, but I know all about survival of the fittest. Anyway, mutations (errors in cell reproduction) eventually made all this shit happen and here we are today. How could it be, you ask? This is directed mainly at The X Factor: It took a few billion years to have multi-celled organisms.

Charles Darwin had to have been a religious man, anyway. The time he lived in didn't tolerate blasphemy (which is why publishing his book was so hard for him) and his father was a priest or some such holy man. I don't think he meant to get in the way of religion like this but help us understand our world scientifically. Don't piss all over his life's research just because we haven't perfected the theory yet.

Keep this in mind: whether it be a rock or a grain of sand, in water, they both sink.
-Oldboy