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Evolution vs creation

This is a discussion on Evolution vs creation within the Science & Technology forums, part of the Debates & Discussion category; I am curently reading this book so I can talk intelligently with my teenaged grandchildren about the existence of God ...

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  #11  
Old 02-21-08, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

I am curently reading this book so I can talk intelligently with my teenaged grandchildren
about the existence of God and about creation vs evolution.

Examime The Evidence, Ralph O Muncaster

"The case for Christ is unfortunately not a simple one. However, I feel this book does a fair job at explaining in the simplest terms possible the various points that cover everything from Old Testament prophecy, ancient history, archaeology, and biology that make up the case for the undeniable truth that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Still, this book does require a great bit of intellect to comprehend. For example, the book describes (very well) the differences between micro-evolution and macro-evolution and why there is imperical data to support one and not the other. By the way, this book reconciled evolution and creation for me in way many other books could not. This alone made it worth my while to read. However, there are many other points that are made as brilliantly well. " MoreMore
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  #12  
Old 02-21-08, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

Thanks for that, BH.

Like he said, there are different types of evolution. Sure we might be able to improve slightly over time, but we are never going to create an entirely new species, nor did man come from an entirely different species.

Anyway...1) Evolution has NEVER been observed. 2) There are NO transitional fossils. 3) If the THEORY of evolution is true, every one of us is on this Earth my accident; a random chance (i.e. your life doesn't matter).

@Obdurate - It's not just a matter of "seeing" a missing link. Archaeologists have been searching since, well, a long time, and there has been little to no evidence of any transitional or hybrid species. Also, I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian (http://www.puretalkforum.com/f12/abo....html#post3534) and be pro-choice and a believer in evolution. They contradict each other.

Continuing on...

The reason people don't want to accept that we were created and didn't evolve is because that makes them accountable to someone besides themselves - GOD. And of course no one wants to be accountable for their actions!

Yes, there is a lot of evidence FOR evolution as well; I'm not oblivious to that. But it just doesn't compare with the evidence against it.

Anyway, I could continue, and probably will later, but I am very tired right now.
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Old 02-21-08, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

I think these last few posts should be moved to the god thread.
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  #14  
Old 02-22-08, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

AJ, I like to question your beliefs and more specifically your LOGIC because you're so sure of your logic and what you believe in it has to be questioned. So knowing that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ View Post
Thanks for that, BH.

Like he said, there are different types of evolution. Sure we might be able to improve slightly over time, but we are never going to create an entirely new species, nor did man come from an entirely different species.
First off... you said evolution is bogus but you just said we can improve, so therefore, you can't think that evolution is bogus.

But that's just being picky, so more to the point. This is a logic question. If you can improve slightly over time, why do you not think you can create an entirely new species? Evolution took millions of years. I was gonna add more but I think it would be better addressed because of your #1 reason...

Quote:
Anyway...1) Evolution has NEVER been observed.
Another logic thing, really. You believe in God and God is built entirely on faith and stories. Jesus existed what was he exactly?
Don't give me a "well you're here" answer either. I'm sick of religious blankets like that.

There has been cases of birds flying to different areas and their beaks changed because they adapted to the different foods they had to eat. Evolution.


Quote:
2) There are NO transitional fossils.
This position is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of what represents a transitional feature. A common creationist argument is that no fossils are found with partially functional features. It is plausible, however, that a complex feature with one function can adapt a wholly different function through evolution. The precursor to, for example, a wing, might originally have only been meant for gliding, trapping flying prey, and/or mating display. Nowadays, wings can still have all of these functions, but they are also used in active flight.
From wikipedia, which has an absolutely WONDERFUL article on evolution.

Quote:
3) If the THEORY of evolution is true, every one of us is on this Earth my accident; a random chance (i.e. your life doesn't matter).
Bullshit. My life matters because I make it matter.

I don't believe in it but nihilism is all about what you said, however. And you know what though? Maybe we as humans don't matter. I can still make my own reasons.

Quote:
@Obdurate - It's not just a matter of "seeing" a missing link. Archaeologists have been searching since, well, a long time, and there has been little to no evidence of any transitional or hybrid species. Also, I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian (http://www.puretalkforum.com/f12/abo....html#post3534) and be pro-choice and a believer in evolution. They contradict each other.
I'm pro-choice because life is too complicated to be ruled by some simple little rules or ideas that don't take everything into consideration. I'm pro-choice because it isn't pro-death like a lot of pro-lifers think it is.
Just like I can see justified murders and justified violence. Not the route I'd go but I can understand it.

My first post on (I think) this page was making fun of you because you believe in God then use an argument based around not seeing something. At least have the decency to just admit all your little beliefs are built on faith. Like, I believe in heaven and hell on a faith level and that's enough for me but I don't get after people and use bullshit logic to defend myself.

I don't even care if you think I'm a christian because I've interpreted things in my own way and I believe what I believe. Just call me Discordian if it makes you feel better (I take the good stuff, leave the shit). And get used to it, life contradicts itself.
The bible is stories written by man. And you have no idea how accurate the timeline is in it.

Maybe things aren't like you think. But of course you would never take that into consideration.

And you call yourself a christian while you let a society thrive that exploits and destroys. What I think/do is more beneficial and more along the lines of loving thy neighbour and all that other good stuff.

Quote:
Continuing on...

The reason people don't want to accept that we were created and didn't evolve is because that makes them accountable to someone besides themselves - GOD. And of course no one wants to be accountable for their actions!
I can't speak for everybody (though you seem to think you can) but I would guess a lot of people aren't like that and they think evolution exists because there's actually MORE EVIDENCE FOR IT than against it (some of your evidence is creationist mumbo jumbo).

Quote:
Yes, there is a lot of evidence FOR evolution as well; I'm not oblivious to that. But it just doesn't compare with the evidence against it.
Right... read a little.


Someone else come in and talk about evolution. I just wanted to attack AJ's logic and that is done now. Justin, where are you?
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Old 02-22-08, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

...


I really don't have much to add onto what Tyler said. I am curious to see AJ's response however.
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Old 02-22-08, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obdurate View Post
AJ, I like to question your beliefs and more specifically your LOGIC because you're so sure of your logic and what you believe in it has to be questioned. So knowing that:



First off... you said evolution is bogus but you just said we can improve, so therefore, you can't think that evolution is bogus.

But that's just being picky, so more to the point. This is a logic question. If you can improve slightly over time, why do you not think you can create an entirely new species? Evolution took millions of years. I was gonna add more but I think it would be better addressed because of your #1 reason...


Another logic thing, really. You believe in God and God is built entirely on faith and stories. Jesus existed what was he exactly?
Don't give me a "well you're here" answer either. I'm sick of religious blankets like that.

There has been cases of birds flying to different areas and their beaks changed because they adapted to the different foods they had to eat. Evolution.



This position is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of what represents a transitional feature. A common creationist argument is that no fossils are found with partially functional features. It is plausible, however, that a complex feature with one function can adapt a wholly different function through evolution. The precursor to, for example, a wing, might originally have only been meant for gliding, trapping flying prey, and/or mating display. Nowadays, wings can still have all of these functions, but they are also used in active flight.
From wikipedia, which has an absolutely WONDERFUL article on evolution.


Bullshit. My life matters because I make it matter.

I don't believe in it but nihilism is all about what you said, however. And you know what though? Maybe we as humans don't matter. I can still make my own reasons.



I'm pro-choice because life is too complicated to be ruled by some simple little rules or ideas that don't take everything into consideration. I'm pro-choice because it isn't pro-death like a lot of pro-lifers think it is.
Just like I can see justified murders and justified violence. Not the route I'd go but I can understand it.

My first post on (I think) this page was making fun of you because you believe in God then use an argument based around not seeing something. At least have the decency to just admit all your little beliefs are built on faith. Like, I believe in heaven and hell on a faith level and that's enough for me but I don't get after people and use bullshit logic to defend myself.

I don't even care if you think I'm a christian because I've interpreted things in my own way and I believe what I believe. Just call me Discordian if it makes you feel better (I take the good stuff, leave the shit). And get used to it, life contradicts itself.
The bible is stories written by man. And you have no idea how accurate the timeline is in it.

Maybe things aren't like you think. But of course you would never take that into consideration.

And you call yourself a christian while you let a society thrive that exploits and destroys. What I think/do is more beneficial and more along the lines of loving thy neighbour and all that other good stuff.



I can't speak for everybody (though you seem to think you can) but I would guess a lot of people aren't like that and they think evolution exists because there's actually MORE EVIDENCE FOR IT than against it (some of your evidence is creationist mumbo jumbo).



Right... read a little.


Someone else come in and talk about evolution. I just wanted to attack AJ's logic and that is done now. Justin, where are you?
You know what, I'm obviously wasting my time arguing with you. If you're not going to be open to any answers that are based on faith, then you win. Faith is not logical, that's why it's faith. And yes, creation IS based on faith. I'm going to call you a liberal Christian (at best); discordianism is a joke. You pick and choose the parts of the Bible you want to obey, because it was "written by man". But that's not what Christians are supposed to believe. We believe that the Bible was written through man by God (divine inspiration), and that they are words to live by (all of them, not just the ones we find convenient).

You misunderstood me about improving. We can improve, but if we are improving, it is because of God, not random chance.

What was Jesus? Jesus is was/is a divine human being. We know this because the Bible tells us.

You life matters because you make it matter? OK, it might matter to you right now, but you could die tomorrow. Then is is going to matter? According to evolution, no, you just rot in the ground.

" Maybe things aren't like you think. But of course you would never take that into consideration." You're right. I'm not going to take evolution into consideration, because I am a Christian and I believe in the Bible. And I know that things are what I think. When you truly give yourself up to God and obey him, you feel His presence. When I pray, I feel him listening.

So, in conclusion, if you're looking for hard facts that we were created and didn't evolve, it's going to be hard to get them. But look around...
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Old 02-22-08, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Presidential Race '08!

Very nicely put AJ
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Old 02-23-08, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Evolution [posts moved from election thread]

So you live you're life wholly based on what some book written 2500 years ago tells you to? I bet you don't even completely follow all the teachings of it but you're preaching thats the only correct way to live? I don't care if people wanna run around and live like that, but don't tell me to believe what it says just because IT says it.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Evolution [posts moved from election thread]

I try to follow the Bible word for word, but thats not humanly possible, we as humans are sinners, we can't change that but we can change how we live our lives.(by reading and following the Bible the best we can.)
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Old 02-23-08, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Evolution [posts moved from election thread]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatchet View Post
So you live you're life wholly based on what some book written 2500 years ago tells you to? I bet you don't even completely follow all the teachings of it but you're preaching thats the only correct way to live? I don't care if people wanna run around and live like that, but don't tell me to believe what it says just because IT says it.
No one follows it completely. It's impossible. All humans are sinners. And I'm not telling you what to believe...believe whatever you want for all I care.
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