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Separation of Church and State

This is a discussion on Separation of Church and State within the Political Affairs forums, part of the Debates & Discussion category; Christianity was a huge part of Early America because there were no large amount of outsiders. The founding fathers were ...

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  #11  
Old 05-05-08, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

Christianity was a huge part of Early America because there were no large amount of outsiders. The founding fathers were Christian. No one was trying to tell them they could not express their faith. Therefore, they quoted the Bible a lot and promoted the teachings of Christianity. However, I don't think they wanted to force everybody to abide by the laws of the Bible. Many early laws may have been influenced by Christianity, but in today's world there is a large variety of religions in America. Not schools or law should promote any one religion or teach any one religion as true today. They should teach the beliefs of many religions so as to educate us to multiple cultures. However, separation of church and state is important to the freedom of our nation (and Canada, since it's like right there on top of us, like a hat). Maybe we shouldn't suppress religion, though. I mean, pretend it's not there until you are in church, but... I need to get off to school now. Don't want to be late.
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Old 05-05-08, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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Originally Posted by Ich_Bin_Butler View Post
Christianity was a huge part of Early America because there were no large amount of outsiders. The founding fathers were Christian. No one was trying to tell them they could not express their faith. Therefore, they quoted the Bible a lot and promoted the teachings of Christianity.
How did the founders promote Christianity?
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Old 05-05-08, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

The 10 commandments is a basic outline for the laws they created. Obviously, adultery isn't illegal, because that would be insane to regulate and it's not the governments business to do so. But thou shall not kill, steal, lie, love and respect thy neighbors/parents. I'm not agreeing that this should be a "Christian" nation, I'm just playing devils advocate here. They wanted a free country of decent men. But for a civilized people, things such as not killing each other, should be common sense.
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Old 05-05-08, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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The 10 commandments is a basic outline for the laws they created.
What laws?
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Old 05-05-08, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

Our country was established on many Christian ideals, no argument from me. I also know many people came here to escape religious persecution.

This is obvious in the first amendment -Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Several states prohibited the support of religion (though many were Christian and believed others should be as well)
There is no way to be fair to all, if preference is given to only one. It would have been ludacris for people to leave America to avoid persecution (considering that's why they came) and so intelligently they found it wise to do what they had.

Our forefathers were not unreligious, or anti-religious, many quite the contrary. What they were aiming for was tolerance. People, able to be themselves, living with other real people.

Tolerance is what we need to learn.
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Old 05-05-08, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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Originally Posted by AJ View Post
Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.”

--George Washington
How does that change the words of the Constitution?

Quote:
"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”

--House Judiciary Committee - 1854
That was in the report of the minority, dude. It was rejected by the House.

Quote:
PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS
There weren't any public schools at the time the Constitution was made.

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“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”

--Northwest Ordinance 1789
How does that give the government jurisdiction over religion?
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Old 05-05-08, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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Originally Posted by Pitgull View Post
Our country was established on many Christian ideals
The nation's government was established by the Constitution. The only Christian idea I see in the Constitution is the liberal Protestant idea that the civil magistrate hath no authority over purely sacred things.

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This is obvious in the first amendment -Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Even if there was no First Amendment, the Constitution would still grant the government no power over religion.

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Several states prohibited the support of religion
Huh?

Quote:
(though many were Christian and believed others should be as well)
Huh?

Quote:
Our forefathers were not unreligious, or anti-religious, many quite the contrary. What they were aiming for was tolerance. People, able to be themselves, living with other real people.
The Constitution didn't establish religious tolerance. It established absolute religious freedom.

Quote:
Tolerance is what we need to learn.
James Madison would kick your ass for saying that, just like he jumped on George Mason in 1777.

Last edited by Mick Jagger; 05-05-08 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 05-05-08, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

Quote:
How did the founders promote Christianity?
Just by making the statements that they made that AJ quoted. They didn't try to incorporate religious beliefs into the Constitution. Now, as far as the ten commandments go, those are mostly universal moral guidelines. That isn't the sole reason murder is illegal (I'm not saying anyone here said it was the reason, but I am going to comment on the commandments and law). Basically, most people find something wrong with things like lying, killing, stealing, adultery, and all that. Not all of the commandments make good laws for a free nation (such as the one about not worshiping other gods) but most are laws almost everywhere you go and find civilization.
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Old 05-05-08, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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Originally Posted by Pitgull View Post

Tolerance is what we need to learn.
Cherish, not tolerate.
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Old 05-05-08, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Separation of Church and State

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Originally Posted by Mick Jagger View Post
What laws?
That is a valid point. There are no specific laws in the Constitution. Only powers granted and denied to the branches of government.
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