A Big Tar-Baby Subject: Separation of Church and State

by Gary DeMar 01/29/08

One of the arguments made by yesterday’s Tar-Baby emailer that while the words separation of church and state do not appear in the Constitution “the concept clearly does.” If the concept is there, then why didn’t the founders phrase the constitution to fit the concept? The concept of “separation of church and state” is older than the Constitution, was not invented by Thomas Jefferson, and is a long-held biblical idea. “Martin Luther (1483–1546) wrote of a ‘paper wall’ between the ‘spiritual estate’ and the ‘temporal estate.’ In his Institutes of the Christian Religion, John Calvin (1509–1564) asserted that the ‘spiritual kingdom’ and the ‘political kingdom’ ‘must always be considered separately’ because there is a great ‘difference and unlikeness . . . between ecclesiastical and civil power,’ and it would be unwise to ‘mingle these two, which have a completely different nature.’”1 Connecticut, Anglican divine and theologian Richard Hooker (1554–1600) described “walls of separation between . . . the Church and the Commonwealth” in his Of the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity. While no one can be sure whether Jefferson borrowed the phrase from Hooker, we do know that Jefferson owned a copy of Ecclesiastical Polity, and “it was among the volumes he sold to the Library of Congress.”2 The phrase was also used by Roger Williams (1603?–1683), the founder of Rhode Island, and the Scottish schoolmaster James Burgh (1714–1775).3

If the founders wanted the concept to be present, I suspect that they would have made that clear in the way they worded the amendment. We have evidence from the state constitutions that separating the institutions of church and state was already happening. Prohibitions concerning clergymen not holding dual offices were in place prior to the drafting of the Constitution. For example, Delaware’s constitution (1776) established the Christian religion (Art. 22) while not elevating “one religious sect” in the “State in preference to another” (Art. 29).4 A jurisdictional separation between church and state was maintained by prohibiting a “clergyman or preacher of the gospel, of any denomination” from “holding any civil office” in the state, “or of being a member of either of the branches of the legislature, while they continue in the exercise of the pastoral function” (Art. 29).5 What’s interesting is that the First Amendment does not prohibit an active clergyman from holding federal office.

Up until 1835, North Carolina’s Constitution required “That no person who shall deny the being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old or New Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of holding any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within [the] State.” This prohibition was amended in 1835 by changing the word “Protestant” to “Christian” and remained in force until the Constitution of 1868. And in that Constitution among the persons disqualified for office were “all persons who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”

It’s obvious by these historical vignettes that the First Amendment was designed for Congress to stay out of the business of either establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Establishing does not mean acknowledging. The United States Court of Appeals has finally expressed the frustration that a lot of people have had with groups like the ACLU that continually substitute “the separation of church and state” language with the actual words of the First Amendment which allows them to fill the substitute phrase with any content that suits their cause: “The ACLU’s argument contains three fundamental flaws [in their claim that the posting the Ten Commandments on government property is a violation of the First Amendment]. First, the ACLU makes repeated reference to ‘the separation of church and state.’ This extra-constitutional construct has grown tiresome. The First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state. . . .

Our Nation’s history is replete with governmental acknowledgment and in some cases, accommodation of religion.”6 The reason the First Amendment does not demand a wall of separation between church and state is because it was not an issue in 18th-century America, and properly understood, is not a problem today.

1 Daniel L. Dreisbach, Thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation Between Church and State (New York: New York University Press, 2002), 72.

2 Dreisbach, Thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation Between Church and State, 76.

3 Dreisbach, Thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation Between Church and State, 76–82

4 Francis Newton Thorpe, The Federal and State Constitutions, Colonial Charters, and Other Organic Laws of the States, Territories, and Colonies Nor or Heretofore Forming the United States of America, 7 vols. (Washington, DC: 1909), 1:566.

5 Thorpe, The Federal and State Constitutions, 1:567–568.

6 ACLU of Kentucky v. Mercer Co., Kentucky, 2005 WL 3466545 at *12, 2005 Fed.App. 0477P (6th Cir. December 20, 2005), 13

http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2008/01-29-08.asp

It's to early to read that and decipher the various meanings. Separation of church and state is important and much needed now that there are so many different religions in this country.

Some say there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution.

i have the feeling this is going to turn into another god thread, should be interesting... i'll sit back for awhile before i comment.

The United States of America was founded on Christian principals and was always meant to be that way. I agree that Americans should always be allowed to worship (or to not worship) in any way they please and to whomever they please, but that's it. I don't agree that we should try to remove everything that could possibly maybe perhaps indicate that there is an almighty God, which is what we are trying to do (i.e. public schools). People take separation of church and state way out of proportion, and it really does upset me.

i have to say i agree with aj... these were the principals that america was founded... so by seperating church from state we are basically saying that the people before us were/are full of it. its worked fine for years them being together.... it just now we have people that would sue a fast food resturaunt over hot coffee when its clear fresh coffee has always been hot... people in this day and age would rather take legal action then handle there difference by talking it out. no one is willing to compromise their side to just end an arguement this is why eventually we will no longer be free, but managed by laws of a ridiculous nature.

The U. S. Government was founded by the establishment of the U. S. Constitution. Please point out what in the Constitution you believe are Christian principles.

Apparently, Mr. DeMar has yet to realize that the phrase "Separation of Church and State" is a figure of speech.

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-four percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.


Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:
"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.”
Samuel Adams
Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.”
George Washington
"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”
House Judiciary Committee - 1854

PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS

“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”
Northwest Ordinance 1789
Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.

“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….”
Yale University requirement
“For Christ and the church.”
Official Harvard University motto

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.”
Gouverneur Morris

How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems?
Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it.

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
John Quincy Adams
“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams
“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
Thomas Jefferson

Separation between Church & State

Christianity, especially liberal Protestantism, had a great influence on America. It was liberal Protestants that established a federal government with no power whatsoever over religion.

How many times was the Bible quoted as a legal authority during the making of the U. S. Constitution?

I doubt that to be true. However, assuming that it is, how does that give the federal government power over religion?

Quote:

Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams

How does that change the Constitution to give the federal government power over religion?