I'm sure you know that the chance of compromise are extremely slim. Extremely. Keyword in your first sentence of your second paragraph was can. People can't agree, its human nature, its why you consider anarchy in the first place. See? Ah, the guiding light!

Its also human nature to corrupt, to fall and lose virtue. You give multiple people power over others, and I'm sure you know what you get with a group of people with the same power. Ah yes, that. Sit back and watch the corruption spread. The current gov' [of the US] may restrict, but it prevents the things like that. It's why people come to America: the chance and the freedom a democracy grants. Sure, anarchy has it's freedom, hell, it could have a lot more freedom, but will it have the same degree of order and balance?

I think putting power in our own hands is like giving a gun to a six year old. I think the current gov' of the US is... alright as it is. I'm not so sure Anarchy is rising in popularity where I live, but I know many people want a new president.

I don't consider Anarchy because people can't agree. I consider Anarchy because something needs to change and at this current point of time all anybody (to vote for) is, is a lesser of however many evils. I choose Anarchy because the government isn't scared of the people and the people are scared of the government. I choose Anarchy because I want equality in a way that capitalism/the government will never grant because we're a society run by money and celebrity. And that's a few reasons.

The chances of compromise isn't as hard as you think. In fact, many of the people I've explained Anarchy to are in full agreement of it. Not all of them but I don't really think most of them are credible sources anyway.

Let me ask you something, since when people fall back on the "it's human nature" argument I need to. How do you know it's human nature? Over the years I've drifted away from using "it's human nature" as a credible argument for ANYTHING because I've heard "it's in human nature to be loved" and you're telling me that it's in our nature to not compromise/to argue. And I don't disagree with those comments. But you do realize that human nature isn't easily definable right? Defining it is black and white, and shit. We have all these contradictions bundled up, trying to define what makes us tick and the government doesn't take that into consideration at all. But Anarchy does.

Once again. Is it? Take away the money factor and I bet bet BET you'll see things change. Not entirely but you'll see a drastic change.

That problem will be solved when it comes. You don't give Anarchists nearly enough credit for their problem solving abilities. Marxism failed because somebody declared himself leader from the get go. People can learn from their mistakes and in such a delicate issue like this, it's necessary to.

The meaning of the wonderful A you see when you see Anarchy is the definition of order and balance, thanks.
In fact, consider this quote, taken from Alex Peak - Thought Piece - “SLC Punk! and the Finer Points of Anarchism” - © 2006 by Alexander S. Peak

"A famous Anarchist philosopher, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, once postulated that “anarchy is order.” In fact, that’s where the symbolism of the Circle-A allegedly comes from: from the ideal that anarchy (symbolized by the ‘A’) is order (symbolized by the circle).
Government, I would argue, is a form of chaos, one that ceases to exist under anarchism. Why is it a form of chaos? Because it monopolizes power for the purpose of dictating people’s lives."

We'll have more order and balance because the idea of censorship won't exist, among other things. You really think we're free, here? I don't. I don't like the idea of the Government keeping tabs on the websites I browse, again, among other things.


I'm willing to bet that if you were to discuss Anarchy with somebody who is tired of the government they'd agree with you. It's a growing movement.

I think putting power in a person/in people that don't know us and don't give a genuine **** about us as individuals (only as numbers) who have an interest in money, who think they know what the greater good is is like giving a gun to a six year old.
So there's the dilemna. It doesn't help that we have a bunch of SLC Punk watching mother ****ers who think that because that movie declares Anarchy as chaos that it's true. Sorry, I just hate that movie.

To the first response:
How can we be led of we are equal? If people are not led, they don't develop and grow as a whole, as a society. How how how how how can we have order if there are no restrictions? I say human nature because that's what we are, and both you and I are examples of it right now. We don't agree on the subject of Anarchy. In a larger scale, you will have those that support, and those that defy. As long as there is more than 1 person on Earth, you will never have a full agreement.

To the second and third...
Money is power, but with multiple people who competed for power, that will cause problems, problems that can be far worse than what we have today. Yes, we can learn from our mistakes, but what can happen in those mistakes will make ours look like everyday problems. We dont have people killed for not accepting compromised, looked down upon for not agreeing.

To the fourth...
Hmph. I can't believe this. I couldn't believe the last part of this. I'll tell you something. You must have no idea how free we really are. People in other countries are forced to do things that are morally wrong, the things they don't want to do. Places in the world restrict the amount of kids you have, the job you must do, and even how much you have to pay taxes by personal means, and you're saying you don't think we're free? My parents came here with a ****ING SUITCASE from a 3rd WORLD COUNTRY. Today, i have my own god damn computer, hell we have 5! My parents pay over $20,000 for our education, they went through a lot to get where they are. They came to this country and got a chance, the freedom that they lacked, they grew, and then spoiled and hypocritical people think they aren't free because they can't do what they want, anytime they want! Compared to a lot of the gov that supposedly hold "order," democracy is freedom. People get angry because the gov' is making sure websites dont get outta hand, but what the ****! WHO GIVES, LET THEM KEEP GODDAMN TABS! The attitude of today's society is sick, they get angry because the gov' listens to a phone call. OTHER COUNTRIES DO IT ALL THE TIME! THE ONES THAT HOLD "ORDER" TO BE EXACT! HELL, THEY DO MORE! If people can find anger in such small things like that, its the most pathetic thing I've seen. It DISGUSTS me to see people think they aren't free because of they can't look at a website without a gov' knowing, can't call a friend w/out a gov' knowing, can't smoke a certain drug because the gov restricts it! We can call our president stupid, we can say he's dumb we can hate the leader without getting in trouble for it! The small freedoms we don't have are NOTHING compared to the freedom of other governments. It fricking DISGUSTS me to see that people whine about such small things, things that could protect us, that limit us so we don't fight and kill for power. Don't say we aren't free here when you're allowed to type that. That's BULLSHIT.

In response to the fifth...
If people want Anarchy, I hope it never happens in the US. We are free, and I strongly believe that. Let them be interested in money. I'm alive, my parents don't have to compromise, just pay taxes. They don't like it, but its the smallest price to pay for freedom. Why waste time coming up with compromise when you can be led in the right direction(usually)? They can claim they are know the greater good. Let them. Are you alive? Yes. Are you protected without compromise? Yes. Heh heh, you know, it's funny... the people who choose anarchy are usually the people who have been free their whole lives... they just arent aware of how fortunate they really are.

To clear things up after you read:
I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with my response. I took the fourth one to heart, I truly believe that the gov' today is the one I want to live in.

I don't understand the second sentence. You don't grow by being led, what kind of world are you living in? You live by doing, yourself, figuring shit out. Somebody can help you out but that's not leadership, that's community. And guess what! That's an idea of Anarchy.
Nothing is restricted but things will be sorted out. If you murder someone, it will be dealt with. You're completely missing the point. I can't believe you don't see
Human nature doesn't exist. Humans do. So does nature. Don't put the two together because you're generalizing (stereotyping?) an entire population, from different cultures, backgrounds, etc.
I think you're being obvious with some of the things you're saying, even redundant.

What? What's your point here? Could you quote the sections you're replying to? It makes it easier.

Yes I do. I've told you how free we are. I'm free to walk around but ultimately I'm not free. I'm chained to big corporations who expose child labour to produce their product. I'm a slave to being told what to think, how to act. I'm a slave to paying taxes to a government that treats me as a number, not a person. Among many more things.

Do you always think in black and white? I'm well aware of other countries problems. I feel bad for them, I think Anarchy would help them too. But just because someone else has problems, does that make yours insignificant? If so, I never want you to complain about a problem you have, ever. And if you do you're a hyprocrite. But this discussion is about over here, and yeah, we're more free than some other countries but we're not free. However, we are fed the illusion that we are. And you bought in. See how I worded that? Bought. In.

Does having 5 computers while other children starve make you feel good?

I (and other Anarchists) don't want to get away with murder. However, we don't like the bending of the rules that the higher powers commit. You don't understand that Anarchists are fighting for the poor. Not the rich. But then again, you have 5 computers.


Once again, the government should be afraid of us. But they aren't. We voted the president in, we voted the prime minister in.
Let me tell you a little story (I'll make it short), there was a leader in I think Haiti (place could be wrong, it doesn't really matter where it is), who wasn't necessarily an Anarchist but when he was brought into power he ate with the poor instead of up in his own building, he also took money away from the government wages and used it on social things. And Canadians (O ****ing Canada) took it upon themselves to go down there and boot him out of power and banish him from his own place. He got in power for a second time because the people liked him, but with the same results.

That's what our governments do and they don't want you to know about it. **** them. Get rid of the government.

Well it was an example but technically it kind of goes against my rights. They aren't allowed to listen to my conversations. I'm not allowed to listen to theirs. And they aren't any more important than me.

Seriously, I'm on a message board that will never be anything more than what it is now. They don't care what I say because I'm just some nerd arguing with somebody. And that's a problem, they should care what I say. Because I mean every word that I say.
Tell me, what makes it right that they watch us? You like somebody watching you? Is it like a fetish, or what?

I'm actually not whining, I'm staying level headed and trying to debate why Anarchy is a better system than what we have now. Which it is. And I've given you reason after reason for it.

So once again, please go over the rest of this post.. and then continue.

I think you talk out of your ass. I also think that you use foreign countries as an argument because you can't think of anything to really attack Anarchy with that's any good. You don't want equality, that's fine, just say it. We're not discussing third world countries, we're discussing our homeland(s). Nobody is trying to cheapen the tragedy that happens in all of those other places but just because they have it bad doesn't mean we have it perfect.

The right direction? This is the right direction?

Um, well, actually... my family has been really bankrupt for many years. I choose Anarchy. My buddy Joe lived in a well to do family (not rich but not in trouble for cash) and he's a really hardcore Anarchist. So the people who choose Anarchy are not the ones who have been free their whole lives, they're the ones who actually care about the rights of people, and want to bring about a positive change instead of destructing like we, as a society, have been for many years. Don't pigeon hole Anarchists, you don't know the first thing about what kind of people believe in it. Because there ISN'T just ONE type of person.

P.S. I'm not really protected. What do you consider protection? The police? Like I said, the police were made to protect the rich.
Does the Government protect me? No, they spy on me and make sure I don't do anything wrong. That's... completely the opposite. **** the Government, let them be scared of us. They need to fear the people.

Yeah of course you do. I don't get offended by people I don't know. I like watching people get all fired up.

In closing, Anarchists won't stop until many things are realized. One of which (being the most important to me) is stopping poverty. Capitalism isn't gonna do that, sorry, you can buy into all you want, it's not gonna change the fact they pulled a bunch of bullshit over your eyes.

I also think you're misunderstanding the very idea of Anarchy. It's not a system in which you can go around and murder people or rape or whatever and get away with it.

Oh, Joad. Ignore some of the more harsh comments I made like "I think you talk out of your ass" or whatever. I worked all night and it seemed like a good idea at the time. I just woke up and I thought about it and said "What the ****?" And of course by then I couldn't edit my post.

I still stand by the rest of the post though.

One question can answer it all:

Do people want anarchy because they want more?

I'll try to put my answer as simple as possible, so keep in mind, I'm leaving a lot of important information out with this answer. People want Anarchy to even things out. They want control over their own lives. We're tired of being told what to do in order for a corporation/government/organization to profit (usually at our expense) Equality is the name of the game here.

It's not even possible to get more from Anarchy, in the sense that I'm assuming you mean it.

Anyway, Joad ol' pal. I'm assuming this was winded down? I hope so because if it's only me and you it's gonna get stale soon. So if it has winded down, it's been fun per usual. I'll await the next one

Well, I guess I can say I view anarchy as this:
People who support anarchy want more control, to be more than what we are now to be even, and more freedom from the profit-making organizations. People always strive for more... it's what makes us grow. I still don't and will not support anarchy until something as bad as dictatorship or communism finds its way to power in the U.S. I'm content with the democracy we have.

Yep, pretty much. We pretty much had this going on between us, it seems no one else was included, lol. To tell you the truth, i got lucky about 3 days after this thread was posted. I wrote an essay, an essay off DBQ's, (Document based questions- it was about the Middle Ages, but I was able to relate feudalism society, which was almost completely self sufficient, to anarchy, which I see much resemblance.) a couple days after the thread started. Well, can't say this wasn't fun. I'll be waiting for another subject, because apparently I'm not good at coming up with them. Thanks for debating with me, I was able to learn (a lot, I should say!) from another point of view, and what anarchy really is. Thanks again!

I just have one more thing to say in regards to Anarchy and more specifically this quote. See that bolded thing? I understand how you don't want to support Anarchy and you know what, as an Anarchist all I can do is talk to you about it and hope you agree, I can't force it, but I do have a little issue with you taking a shot at Communism because Anarchy and Communism is related in most cases. This isn't an effort to argue further but I don't think you're entirely sure about what Communism was meant to be.

Anarchy wants to abolish the government, make us equal. Make us share and work for each other instead of a higher power.
Communism is a lack of government, with us being equal. Makes us share and work for each other instead of a higher power.

I am perfectly aware of what people view Communism as (oh no, the big bad Reds with their iron fists behind the iron curtain) but I assure you with all my heart that Communism in its purest form is NOT evil. It's seen as evil because of Western propaganda and the fact that a few people rose to power and ****ed it all up.
For example, Joseph Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of Russia. That's the first problem, true Communism does NOT have a leader. Stalin became a dictator. That's why Communism didn't work because these people weren't practicing Communism really, they were practicing Fascism/Dictatorship.

Dictatorship and Communism are opposites and should rightfully oppose each other. Anarchy and Communism are directly related and supportive of each other.

And unless I misunderstand your comment about how you view Anarchy (I see it as positive but maybe you meant it negatively), then yeah, that's kind of it. We want more in that sense. Also, more community. A big question in Anarchist circles is, what comes first, the individual or the community?

You're the only person here who has earned respect from me. Butler is on his way though, even though I haven't actually debated against him.

Sorry for the long reply. I just don't want you to view Communism as bad. I do agree that Dictatorship is though.

Ah, I see. Sorry about Communism then. It's just that Communism has been corrupt for most of its time that it strayed from its natural and real purpose, nd thus the reason why I thought it was bad.

I have to say, you're a very intelligent person. Its a great honor to meet and discuss certain subjects with someone like you.