Originally Posted by gillibean

Jol I don't think anyone is saying that science is proof god doesn't exist. I definitely don't think that is the case. There is no definitive proof either way. People have to look at the world and come to conclusions for themselves.

Originally Posted by The_the

Congrats.

Originally Posted by jol

I think that the point The_the is basically trying to make is that God has to exist, because nothing comes before something. Otherwise, things would just be *created.*

The problem with arguing that Science doesn't support God is the fact that God can transcend science. Maybe god made the universe, and then stuck science in to make it work. You can't simply say that God doesn't exist because science doesn't show it, because, if God does indeed exist, he is so far above Scientific law that it becomes stupid to make that comparison.

Then, you can say "well, then what created God? He can't just be infinite." Ah, but that is only because Science says that he can't be. Maybe God created time after he set up the universe to, again, just like with science, make things work.

Science and math themselves are based on conjecture, so you can't come to ultimately definitive conclusions using either.

Originally Posted by gillibean

Jol I don't think anyone is saying that science is proof god doesn't exist. I definitely don't think that is the case. There is no definitive proof either way. People have to look at the world and come to conclusions for themselves.

Originally Posted by gillibean

Evolution is a scientifically based theory(collection of theories really) and as such it should be taught. Evolution has nothing to do with god, it's simply the scientific explanation how this planet got to it's current state. It's the how and religion is the why.

Originally Posted by The_the

Jol is almost inarguably wrong about the comments before this post, but you're also wrong on your view of evolution. This planet has been decaying/ gradually wearing away after a certain point; the species simply have been reproducing at a greater rate than the wearing away of the world. Universal common descent evolution( which is what I assume you're talking about) only encompasses the state and progress of species' over time, hence the "universal common descent".

Originally Posted by The_the

Darn, I'm almost embaressed ( spelling?) that I didn't simplify it that well. Good work.



Ok, I know where to get you on this now. Define "proof" and where you think it can possibly be discovered, Gilli. There is proof, just conceptually. The only reason to not believe in some sort of God's existence is through a poor or misunderstanding of logic/ valid philosophy, or simply having a weak left hemisphere of one's brain.

If logic itself is applicable/ useful/ valid, God must necessarily exist.

READ my formal explanation of God's existence. I'll find the page it's on.