gillibean---
thanks for the reply. your answer, from my perspective, is not only correct, but very insightful! this is what i call love, caring and working for the betterment of both (not the physical act itself.)
last night i was thinking how much that you and i have replied to the other's comments, even though we dont seem to agree on anything. i am very happy to see, regarding lack of agreement, that i was wrong. thanks.
bud

Ich_Bin_Butler---
i do appreciate your reply. your analysis of the question was quite well thought out.
the reason that i believe that it is love after marriage is, like you say, marriage is a commitment.
will she stay with him even though he has some repulsive habits? will he stay with her, even though she likes to quarrel? this is where the ultimate commitment of marriage is essential. will they endure the other's problems? will they set aside pride to work on their own problems. sometimes, it takes total commitment. the desire to work on these issues for the betterment of the other, no matter what, is the definition of love. sex, in this situation, is a true part of love.
without the commitment of marriage, sex is a changeable (shakey) entity all of its own. with commitment, sex is a part of firm foundation of love.

Bud, I'm going to try not to freak out over you example but why is enjoying debate a bad thing? It sounds like the typical fundamentalist reaction to women with opinions.

the reason that i reversed this scenario, was that "you must always try before you buy," implies that if they are "crap in bed" you would leave (or not buy.) now if it was you that was c.i.b., would you expect the other person to leave, (or not buy.)? just wondering.

gillibean,
all i was saying, in my own cute way, was that i agree wholeheartedly. (so please dont freak out on my account.)
i dont know how i gave you the impression that enjoying a debate was a bad thing. i believe that it is a good thing. i once heard that "we agree to disagree, agreeably." and that is what i believe.
if the type of fundamentalist you are referring to is in my Christianity, i haven't a clue where you got the "typical reaction to women with opinions" (presumably a negative type of reaction). you assume (ass-u-me) completely wrong in your stereotyping of me and my belief system. i guess i will just have to debate you on this one.

I was referring to your use of "a girl who likes to quarrel" and asking if he would leave them for that. The typical fundamentalist (meaning seriously flds fundamentalist) reaction to women with opinions is that they shouldn't have them. I wasn't stereotyping you or your belief system. I was very careful not to assume that I know what you believe. I couldn't tell whether you used the example of a argumentative woman because it just happened to occur to you or because you think an argumentative woman is a bad thing. That's why I asked instead of just ripping into you. It's clear that you don't think that so all is well

thanks for the benefit of the doubt. your right, it was just out of thin air.

If you have sex before marriage you lose your virginity and when you get married you are not giving your whole self to your spouse.

If you don't marry that person who you've had sex with, then the person who you do marry won't get the entire you. Sex is like a beautiful gift. It's only one special gift that should not be wasted on just a love fling.

Sex before marriage would be okay for me as long as both parties are ready for the consequences for the results their actions might caused. But I strongly believe for underage who has no sense of what responsibility truly is, better not do it.